Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

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bandjwickey
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Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Sat 23. Mar 2019, 23:25

originally published under Banz und Wicki von Entlebuch sowie Hasle LU
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Hello
I am curious if you have found more information on the Wicki family?
According to my great great grandfather's baptism record (1839 in Sornetan) his father was Joseph (ca. 1803) son of Joseph Wicki from Doppleschwand. The only record that I could find in Doppleschwand church records that looks right, turns out to be wrong (as that person became a monk).
I would greatly appreciate any clues that you may have on the Wicki family.
Thanks
Ben Wickey



Felber
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Sun 24. Mar 2019, 22:23

Hi Ben

Is it possible that Josef Wicki was also born in another place? What do you know about his later life? Where and when did he marry and die? Sadly baptisms, marriages and deaths were seldom reported back in that time to Lucerne.

Kind regards

Olivier



bandjwickey
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Mon 25. Mar 2019, 01:50

Hello Olivier,
Yes, it is possible that Doppleschwand was only his “heimat ort” and he was actually born elsewhere. There are at least 4 other records that would fit the description from neighboring villages. On his marriage record in 1839 (Jura region) it states that he was from Doppleschwand and on his 2 son’s baptism records it states that he was a son of Joseph Wicki from Doppleschwand.
I am hoping that that someone has put together a Wicki family outline that sorts out the family tree somewhat. Or that there are census records or something.
Thanks
Ben Wickey



Felber
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Mon 25. Mar 2019, 12:47

Hello Ben

Did Joseph Wicki have more than the two sons? Do you know where he lived later? Did he stay in Switzerland or moved elsewhere? Did he immigrate to the US? Was he the Joseph Wicki in the US Census from 1850 in Eden, Wyandot, Ohio: 48 years old, born in Germany, married to Lucy A Wicki (43 years old), with the children Victor (20), Cyrus (18), Augustus (11), Gustavus (9), Mariana (4) and Samuel (2)?

Josef Wicki probably wasn't a rare name. Instead of doing research in Doppleschwand I'd suggest to look for the birth records of all his children. Maybe one contains more information. And does his marriage record say where he was living? Maybe it's worth to look in the surrounding parishes of that time for other Wickis that could be related. Are all of the four other records you’ve found also Wicki from Doppleschwand?

As far as I know there isn't a census in that time period. And I doubt that someone has made a family tree of the Wicki from Doppleschwand that also contains the people who moved abroad since they weren't reported back. I know how time consuming the research can be when baptisms, marriages and deaths weren't reported back.

Kind regards

Olivier



bandjwickey
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Mon 25. Mar 2019, 17:27

Hello Olivier,
Yes, he did immigrate to the US (in 1843) and yes, that is the correct census record. It includes 2 children from his wife’s first marriage (to Jean Pierre Berlincourt) In the 1860 census they are living in Indiana and by 1870 he was living with his daughter (still in Indiana) I have not been able to find any records of him after 1870 even though I have fairly complete records of his descendants. I have not been able to find his mother’s name on any records so far.
Ben



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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Wed 27. Mar 2019, 10:28

Hello Ben

According to Josef Wicki's marriage record in the book of proclamations of Sornetan he was living in the parish Moutier at that time. And he needed a permission of the government of Berne. I don't know if the entry in the council records (13th August 1839, Nr. 248) would contain useful information. A similar entry I've seen in the canton Lucerne from 1857 wasn't really helpful (like: "permission to marry was granted to NN. from A and NN. from B").

Was Josef Wicki's birth year in the censuses always about 1803? And what children have you exactly found in the canton Bern that would fit him? Maybe some of them died early or you find marriage records that exclude them?

Kind regards

Olivier



bandjwickey
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Thu 28. Mar 2019, 12:27

Hello Olivier,

Thank you for continuing to give this some thought.

I attached the marriage permission for Joseph, but I don't think it provides any clues (even though I can't read it with 100% accuracy in the script that it is in)

In 1850 his age is given as 48, in 1860 it is 58, and in 1870 when he was living with his daughter it is given as 60 (which I think is a mistake)
Also on passport application in Switzerland on March 3 1843 he is listed as 40, and the ship list (arrival in NY May 22 1843) he is listed as 40. So I think it is quite conclusive that he was born ca. 1802 or 1803.

He only had 2 children born to him in Switzerland (in Sornetan) and I have not been able to glean any more information from their records.

Ben
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Felber
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Thu 28. Mar 2019, 22:26

Hello Ben

You're welcome!

Sadly the marriage permission doesn't contain more information.

Well, at least we know that Josef Wicki probably was born around 1803.

The problem is that we have some difficulties coming together in this case. The church records of Berne in that time are rather mediocre. Births, marriages and deaths were only reported back to Lucerne in my experience from about 1860 on. Sadly your Josef Wicki left Switzerland before that time period. Bern has family registers from the early 19th century on but since your ancestor remained a citizen of Lucerne that's no help. Lucerne only has newer family registers.

The "Heimatort" is very practical for research after 1876 but before that it can be tricky. My great-great-grandmother (1866–1949) had the Heimatort Entlebuch. But even her great-grandfather (1748–1802) never lived there. So it's not for sure that your Josef Wicki was born in Doppleschwand. Maybe his father also lived in Berne or in another community in the Entlebuch.

The only idea I have right now is to look in the church records next to Sornetan and Moutier to see if there were other families with the name Wicki and if there was a Josef Wicki born around 1803. There are some parishes in that area but most of them should be online. Maybe you’re lucky and find your Wicki?

I could look to see if the marriage permission in Lucerne contains more information but I'm sceptical. There are also personal documents about different Josef Wicki's (Staatsarchiv Luzern, AKT 213/5429 and AKT 213/5430). I can look it up but I can't guarantee to find anything useful or anything at all.

Kind regards

Olivier



bandjwickey
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Fri 29. Mar 2019, 00:49

Hello Olivier,

In your opinion, the 1839 marriage record states that Joseph was Catholic, would that be likely to mean that he would have been born in a Catholic area of Switzerland ?

Being most of the Swiss church records are now available online, I think I am going to try build a Wicki family outline from the Doppleschwand area to see if there is a logical place for my Joseph. A number of years ago an airline pilot named Walter Wicki did do some Wicki research and he claimed Joseph was a son of Nicolas, but I don’t know the basis for his reasoning. (He has since died and his widow got rid of his records) One thought that I had is that many of the baptism records of that era and place have 2 or 3 given names, so I may be looking for a “ Joseph Nicolas”

Thanks again for all your insights.

Ben



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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Sat 30. Mar 2019, 17:44

Hello Ben

That's hard to tell. It's definitely more likely that Josef Wicki lived in a place with a catholic church and was born there. But he married and let his children baptize in a protestant parish so therefore everything's possible.

The Romandie is quite complicated in religious terms. Maybe Josef Wicki was born in the neighbouring canton Jura or even Solothurn which both remained catholic? In Berne there was about 1800 - as far as I can see it online - only one catholic parish, namely in the city of Berne. There even lived a Josef Wicki. But this was some years later and apparently he was from Flühli or Schüpfheim.

The church records of Jura and Solothurn are at least partially digitized by the Mormons but only viewable in their centres.

It was quite common to give several names in that time. As long as there's a Joseph in it it might be yours.

There's your Joseph Wicki on FamilySearch, but his parents are listed as Niklaus Wicki and Elisabeth Stalder. According to our research that must be wrong.

Kind regards

Olivier



bandjwickey
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by bandjwickey » Sat 30. Mar 2019, 21:40

Thanks again for all your insights, Olivier.

Ben



Felber
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Re: Wicki von Doppleschwand LU

Post by Felber » Sun 31. Mar 2019, 20:07

You're welcome, Ben!

Sadly I don't know what approach is the most promising. Maybe it's better to first check all the parishes in the Entlebuch to see how many Joseph Wicki's you find in the baptism records from about 1800 to 1805. And to look which of them stayed there or died young. If you don't find a fitting Joseph then you probably have to expand your research.

It's surely a time consuming task but when you stick to it you'll surely find something.

Kind regards

Olivier



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