Winiger von Jona SG

[Dwiniger]

Hi. Looking for English speaking help for Winiger name. I can share all US since 1850 migration to Indiana (USA)

This is my 3x great grandfather

Martin Joseph Winiger. Married Maria Barbara Helbling.
1813-1880

[Wolf]

I find the baptism of a Josephus Martinus Valentinus Winiger on 17 July 1813 in Jona, legitimate son of Carl Franz Winiger and M(aria) Salome Murer. Godparents were Joseph Marti(n) Murer and Regina Hüßer.

His family is listed on the Bürgerregister (vol.A. p.200, family 419). According to the register he was born 21 May 1813, married Maria Barbara Helbling of Magen(??), 12 Jan 1818 - 02 Feb 1880, on 30 Jan 1837. He died on 09 June 1876.
Could it be that you mixed up death dates of Martin Joseph Winiger and his wife?

Both died in Jona - so who emigrated - or died they emigrate but returned to Switzerland later? Their daughter Maria Rosa (born 29 Aug 1850) seems to have died in America.
Here you find the death entries 09 June 1876 for Martin Joseph and 02 Feb 1880 for Maria Barbara, both in Jona. They had lived in Langrüti.

Der Anfrager sucht auch Kontakt zu in der Schweiz lebenden Nachkommen: hat jemand Kontakt?

[Dwiniger]

Thanks and yes I. had the dates swapped in error.

1) Are there any experts on this branch of Winigers there in Switzerland that are willing to share info?

Carl Franz Winiger (1776-1834) is my 4x GGFather

his son was Martin Joseph (1813-1876) ... my 3rd GGFather

his son was Adam Joseph Winiger (1841-1914) born Jona ...my 2nd GGrandfather...He came to the USA in 1865 and landed in Posey County Indiana in a town called West Franklin and built a still existing log home.

his son was William Winiger (1871-1938) born USA ... my Great Grandfather

his son Adam William Winiger (1895-1960) morn USA... my Grandfather

his son Gilbert Jospeh Winiger ) (1930-2001) born USA ... my father


I am extremely interested in any info on these and BEFORE them!

All the very best!

David Winiger (1960 - ) born USA
Carmel, INDIANA
USA

[Wolf]

Thank you for the additional information from your side of the Atlantic. From the Jona Bürgerregister (vol. A) we get the following sequence (the family data sheets include all the children):

Winiger Joseph Adam, 13 Dec1841 (no further information)

Winiger Joseph Martin, 21 May 1813 - 09 Jun 1876 (family 419)
marries 30 Jan 1837
Helbling Maria Barbara, 12 Jan 1818 - 02 Feb 1880 (parents' family 138)

Winiger Carl Franziskus, 22 Dec 1776 - 24 Dec 1834 (family 417)
marries 04 Nov 1798
Maurer Maria Salomea, 02 Jan 1771 - 05 Apr 1816 (parents' family 289)

Winiger Jos(ef)(*) Kaspar, 13 Nov 1748 - 29 Oct 1824 (family 416) (* should be Johann, according to baptism and marriage records)
marries 19 Jan 1774
Maurer Maria Elisabetha, ? - 29 Apr 1808

Winiger Jakob Adam, ? - ? (family 408)
marries ?
Helbling Maria Anna, ? - ?

From now on church records would need to be consulted. Unfortunately the Church Book 2 of Jona is somewhat chaotic (at least for the death entries).

You asked "Are there any experts on this branch of Winigers there in Switzerland that are willing to share info?". I had recommended you post your question here, in the hope someone speaks up. I myself have no connection to Winiger, I am just trying to help people get started, and have consulted the Bürgerregister for you. I hope someone else speaks up.

[Wolf]

Are there any experts on this branch of Winigers there in Switzerland that are willing to share info?

I remember a special exhibition on emigration several years ago at the Stadtmuseum Rapperswil-Jona: obviously they are interested in this topic - and likely will have contact to local historians. Whether any of them actually is interested in Winiger, I don't know - but it's worth asking.

[Wolf]

In the meantime I've had a look at familysearch.org - and copied the following:

Winiger_1813-1876_Martin-Joseph-ancestors.jpg

This is a good example, that their data (and this applies to all online gedcom databases!) can be a great help to find directions - but nothing should be copied without checking the original sources.

In this case Joseph Martin (1813-1876) was incorrectly attributed (1813-1880) - but his father and grandfather are your line. Still ... some dates are incorrect. For Jacob Adam Winiger and Maria Anna Helbling the names are confirmed by the Bürgerregister - but dates still need to be checked. The "??" for earlier generations does not imply this information is incorrect - just, that it still needs to be checked (as I haven't done so).

How can these databases be really helpful? Example: marriage 1774 of Johann Kaspar - which I didn't find in Jona. On familysearch Busskirch was mentioned - and there I actually found this marriage (though the date on familysearch is incorrect).

Just two additional comments:
--- The system of "middle names" does not exist in German speaking regions. Example: Joseph Martin Winiger was baptisted as Joseph Martin; it was quite common that all boys (same with girls) had a "first name" in common (could be the grandfather's) - but would be called by the "second name" - so Joseph Martin would be called Martin - and the person compiling these data therefore made Joseph the "middle name" (might already show up this way on US records).
--- Don't take spelling too seriously at these times - they were not fixed. This applies to surnames (Winiger/Weiniger or Maurer/Murer) as well as to given names.

[Dwiniger]

Yes. My focus is to try to get uncontaminated data directly from Jona...the US trees have far too many errors in them to even use directionally...Thanks! Hoping a local Winiger there might be doing family research.

Regarding Langruti...how would you best describe what this is/was? Was it the name of their house or perhaps a neighborhood or area?

I have never gotten a good understanding of the word or its meaning / usage.

Thanks!
David Winiger
USA

[griffy]

If you check out this old map of 1890, you'll notice Langrüti close to the river Jona and the lake. The drawing suggests that the place was probably a bit swampy.

According to the reference given above by Wolf, the name can be understood as a long – often narrow – stretch of reclaimed farming land.

On Jos Murer's map of 1566, Langrüti is somewhere between Jonen and Wurmspach in the upper right quadrant.

Langrüti is clearly visible in Hans Konrad Gyger's map of 1667.

[Dwiniger]

WoW! ... This is most AMAZING!!!!

Thanks so much for this map....I was told that the Langruti was old and that it referred to a specific home which was occupied by Max Winiger and family in the mid 1970s when my mother and father stayed there in 1976 from the US.

What an awesome book this would be to own.

I plan to try to print out the map and get framed...very special to me!

[griffy]

You'll find a slightly different version of the map by Gyger here.

If you're so inclined, you'll also find aerial photos of Switzerland in the "Lubis Viewer".

There are bw photos of 1932 that could be of interest, for instance here.

The house your parents visited would have been one of those in the centre, north of the river.

Langrueti_1932.png

[Dwiniger]

Here is a very old photo of what we were told was a home built in the 1500s (?) and another of the same home from 1976 taken from an airplane my father was in. Both were called Winiger Langruti Home Stead

IMG_9700.jpg

IMG_9699.jpg

[griffy]

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like that house is still there.

According to Google, it's the old house at the bottom right-angled corner of that characteristic shoe-shape figure formed by the streets:

Langrueti_homestead.png

The number is 16 Langrütistrasse, and a look in the phone book reveals that a Winiger still lives there!

[Dwiniger]

How amazing is that!

[griffy]

And another Winiger, a farmer, lives at number 18 of the same building.

[Dwiniger]

It would be awesome if either of them were into family heritage!

[Dwiniger]

Does anyone here know of these Winigers from Jona that can put me in touch with them or someone they know?

A big ask I know but that's how Genealogy works right?

Would have to be in English for it to work...sadly...I know a bit of German!

Specifically:
Alfred Winiger
Bernhard Winiger


Thanks, Dave Winiger

[Dwiniger]

Merry Christmas from across the Atlantic!!!

[Dwiniger]

I find the baptism of a Josephus Martinus Valentinus Winiger on 17 July 1813 in Jona, legitimate son of Carl Franz Winiger and M(aria) Salome Murer. Godparents were Joseph Marti(n) Murer and Regina Hüßer.
[...]

Is there a German Cursive key or translator I can use for these old documents? The script is not legible to me ... sorry!

[Wolf]

The bad news is - there is no simple "translator": the script has changed over the centuries, and (als always with handwriting) scripts from different writers will differ a lot - from easily read to impossible to read (even for experienced genealogists).

Search the internet for "German script" or "Sütterlin script" and you'll get many charts how the letters should look like "officially" - which will give you a first impression. There are also tutorials - mostly in German however. You may want to have a look for the following two pages in English:
https://script.byu.edu/german-handwriting/introduction
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/he ... troduction

Finally it will just mean practising, practising, practising ... no difference to German speaking people trying to learn reading old documents .

The help we can offer: identify a few documents of most interest to you and ask for a letter-by-letter transcription. In this way you can compare the handwritten text and the transcription ... then try to read other texts in the same (or similar) writing.

[Dwiniger]

Are there any experts on this branch of Winigers there in Switzerland that are willing to share info?

I remember a special exhibition on emigration several years ago at the Stadtmuseum Rapperswil-Jona: obviously they are interested in this topic - and likely will have contact to local historians. Whether any of them actually is interested in Winiger, I don't know - but it's worth asking.

Could be just the Holidays but ZERO response to reaching out to this organization...sadly.

Trying now to go back before Family 408!

[Dwiniger]

Is the state archive no longer available? I get server errors. Thanks and greetings!

http://www.staatsarchiv-sg.ch/index.php ... 00-201.jpg

David Winiger

[Wolf]

The Archive is still online - but they have re-done the entire web site completely: https://dls.staatsarchiv.sg.ch/.

I find the new design not very user friendly, especially as it is no longer possible to link to a single page of a record - just the title page of the record. As a consequence old links to single pages (and there will be hundreds in this forum) will no longer work .

[Dwiniger]

Thanks for the response. This is too bad because now I have to use an all German site to get what I need to get to and I still haven’t been able to even get to the pages you linked me to originally as my German is not that good.

Saddened.

[Wolf]

Fortunately the old URL tells us a lot .
ZVB_99-34_01_03Tx_200-201.jpg
We know anyway that we are looking for a record for Jona.
ZVB indicates it's a Bürgerregister (church records are ZVA).
99-34_01 indicates (apart from the - and _) the signature number.
So forget about the State Archive catalogue - go to https://www.ghgo.ch/kb, click on Abfrage (= search) and type in Jona.
On the result list you find "ZVB 99/34.01 Jona (Bürgerregister) Band A" - so that's the record book you are looking for.
Open the link > click on Viewer > then you have to select a "page". As each "page" shows two record pages, we want a number just over half of 200 … try 105 … go back to 104 and you have book pages 200&201 with several Winiger families, incl. family 419.
Looks more complicated than it is - but, as I said before, I don't find the new design very user friendly either.

[Dwiniger]

Wow. So kind of you. Thanks again for all you do for everyone here (and there)!

David Winiger
USA

[JaneAusten7]

I came across this thread when I was looking for additional "old German script" examples. I had two pretty good example pages, but was looking for more examples. Thought I'd share my finds.

Search the internet for "German script" or "Sütterlin script" and you'll get many charts how the letters should look like "officially"

I did this and found these wonderful sheets with lots and lots of examples for each letter here:

http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei1.htm

http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei2.htm

https://script.byu.edu/Pages/the-german ... s(english)

The above link was dead, but I think I found the new one here: https://script.byu.edu/german-handwriting/introduction

Thank you, Wolf for this helpful information!

[Wolf]

https://script.byu.edu/Pages/the-german ... s(english)

The above link was dead, but I think I found the new one here: https://script.byu.edu/german-handwriting/introduction

Thank you for pointing this out - has been updated.

[JaneAusten7]

Just came across this for generating Old German Script:

https://deutsche-handschrift.de/adsschr ... chriftfeld

It's a very valuable tool to get an "idea" of what the name you're looking for might resemble in the records. Had to share.