Könlein von St.Gallen SG

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Xtian
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Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Hallo, Hi, Bonjour

I'm looking for information about my grand-father

Albert August(e) Konlein (or Koenlein)
Born on decembre 26th, 1901 in Altstetten, Suisse (canton de Zurich)

Many thanks in advance for any help
Best regards, Cordialement

Christian
Last edited by Wolf on Sun 5. Apr 2020, 17:33, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: urspr. Titel: Konlein / Könlein in Zürich-Altstetten ZH



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Re: Konlein / Könlein in Zürich-Altstetten ZH

Post by Wolf »

Altstetten is now part of the city of Zürich. Könlein (Konlein) are not listed as Zürich citizens in "Familiennamenbuch", so the father was not a citizen of Altstetten: he could have been from abroad or another Swiss community. If he was born in Zürich (as of today), the Zivilstandsamt should have this in their birth register: ask there ...
1) if they find the person in the register and
2) under which conditions (incl. a fee) you could get a copy.

----------------------------------

A Könlein family from Dambach (Bavaria) gained citizenship of the city of St.Gallen in 1832. The "Bürgerbuch" (1930 edition), however, mentions August Johann Könlein, born 1898 as son of August Albert Könlein (born 1867), living 1930 in Laveline (Bruyères). This August Albert was a photographer in Altstetten and died between 1901 and 1930 ... so he could have had a son with the same name, born 1901 - who also died before 1930, however. August Albert (born 1867) had married Maria Clara Petitdemange from Grandvillers (Vosges).

If this is compatible with your data, I recommend you contact the St.Gallen State Archive and ask them to check the "Geburtsregister B" of the city of St.Gallen, and whether you could get a copy: they usually provide copies for single records, if place and date are given (so they don't have to search) to people living abroad. If Albert August was actually born to a St.Gallen citizen, his birth will be recorded in St.Gallen - irrespective of where he was born.

Please, report here what the response is.


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Re: Konlein / Könlein in Zürich-Altstetten ZH

Post by Xtian »

Hi Wolf
Thanks a lot for your response. Sorry not to have responded earlier, i thought that I would have gotten a notice of a response being posted, but I didn't. I only came here today by accident.
The data you're referring too maches exactly with what I know about my family (I'm using geneanet today), my grand father indeed married Clara Petit Demange....that's him :)
I don't know what the "Bürgerbuch" is, but if there is more informaiton about my family, I'd be glad to get it. The Dambach stuff and the rest is new to me though.
as per your recommendation, I'm going to contact St Gallen State Archive.
Many thanks
Christian



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Re: Konlein / Könlein in Zürich-Altstetten ZH

Post by Wolf »

Xtian wrote:
Sun 5. Apr 2020, 15:53
..., i thought that I would have gotten a notice of a response being posted, but I didn't.
Hello Christian,
there are two possibilities:
1) Something went wrong with the notification mail, either address no longer valid, or the mail ended up in your spam folder, ...
2) Your settings are set to "no notification" ... go to
User Control Panel (if dialogue is in English): your alias in the right hand top corner.
> Board preferences
>> Posting defaults
>>> Notify me: must be set to "yes".
I hope this helps solve the problem - will respond to the genealogical aspects of your post separately.


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Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Xtian wrote:
Sun 5. Apr 2020, 15:53
The data you're referring too maches exactly with what I know about my family (I'm using geneanet today), my grand father indeed married Clara Petit Demange....that's him :)
I don't know what the "Bürgerbuch" is, but if there is more informaiton about my family, I'd be glad to get it. The Dambach stuff and the rest is new to me though.
There is the Stemmatologia Sangallensis recording all St.Gallen citizen families, at least since the beginning of church records (1572). The "Bürgerbuch" is a printed extract, which used to be published in more or less regular intervals (about 10 years). I have the editions 1887, 1901, 1930 and several later ones on my bookshelf. Bürgerbuch gives years only - for exact dates you have to visit the City Archive (closed to the public right now due to the Corona pandemic). Let me summarise what I read in the printed books:

nnnn Könlein August Friedrich Georg, mine worker (later mine owner), + before 1887. He's likely the person from Dambach (Bavaria) who gained St.Gallen citizenship in 1832.
Son:
1835 Könlein Emil August, painter in Uznach SG
marries 1865
1842 Schullian Pauline from Rottweil, Württemberg
Children:
1865 Fridrich Emil, photographer in Veltheim ZH
1867 August Albert, photographer in Altstetten ZH
1868 Albertina Philippina Ludwina
1872 Jean August
1875 Pauline Hermine
1877 Oskar

1867 Könlein Paul August, photographer in Altstetten ZH, died 1924
marries 1895
1868 Maria Clara Petitdemange from Grandvillers (Vosges)
Children:
1896 Marie Ida Charlotte
1897 Pauline Clara
1898 August Johann (twin), 1930 worker in Laveline (Bruyères), oo 1921 Thérèse Fischer from Bischofsheim (Bavaria)
1898 Hermann Werner (twin), 1930 painter in Epinal, oo 1927 Marie Adrienne Jeanclaude
1900 Clara Augustine, 1930 single in Laveline (Bruyères)
1901 (no child mentioned: too late for 1901 edition and possibly gave up St.Gallen citizenship before 1930?))
1905 Emil Josef , 1930 worker in Laveline (Bruyères)
1907 Camille Philippine, 1930 single in Laveline (Bruyères)

If you ask at the State Archive about the birth document, also ask about the naturalisation documents of 1832.


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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Whaouuu this is great, thank you so much. I had found in the past some references to a konlein owning a mine, but i could not link him to my family, now thanks to you, big progress have been made.
I'll take time tomorrow to digest and add these info in my tree.
Once again thanks a lot. Merci beaucoup. Vielen dank :)
Christian

PS : as for the notification, by default they were set to off :(



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Attached is a small para on Uznach from the Swiss Geographical Dictionary, mentioning schistous coal mines and sandstone quarries.
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Hi Wolf

FYI, I've found the "Bürgerbuch der Ortsbürgergemeinde St. Gallen" 1867, 1877, 1886 and 1900 editions on line :) I'll dig in now.
Thanks again

PS: http://digital.ub.uni-duesseldorf.de/ur ... 1:1-455787



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Hi Wolf,

I've found this blason https://www.chgh.ch/6728-k/kobel-kovinger/koenlein.html, do you know why my family had one ? Was this something usual in St Gallen ?
Thanks a lot
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Xtian wrote:
Mon 6. Apr 2020, 07:14
I've found the "Bürgerbuch der Ortsbürgergemeinde St. Gallen" 1867, 1877, 1886 and 1900 editions on line :).
PS: http://digital.ub.uni-duesseldorf.de/ur ... 1:1-455787
This is most interesting: two issues older than my oldest one - so I don't have to visit the library for those ;). Here's the information on Koenlein (1867 / printed 1868):
Buergerbuch-1868-175-Koenlein.jpg
So Emil August was born 1835, son of August Friedrich Georg and Susanna Barbara Zuberbühler of Trogen AR. The parents got married on 08.07.1834 in St.Gallen. The groom was the son of Johann Georg of Dambach - I would assume a brother of Friedrich Wilhelm (*1804). Unfortunately there is no info on the bride's parents: we know from the Bürgerbuch she was from Trogen - and we know the name and place of origin of her second husband - whom we find on the Bürgerregister St.Gallenkappel: there is a minor discrepancy: Kaspar Mathä instead of Kaspar Melchior (Kaspar Mathä more likely to be the correct name). He gets married to Susanna Barbara Zuberbühler on 05.06.1838, she's born 10.02.1811 to Sebastian and Anna Näf, and dies 14.03.1894.

Trogen church records are online - but for Zuberbühler of Trogen a separate topic has been started (topics can be linked to each other).
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Thanks for having decoded and translated those.
Christian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Xtian wrote:
Mon 6. Apr 2020, 08:01
I've found this blason https://www.chgh.ch/6728-k/kobel-kovinger/koenlein.html, do you know why my family had one ? Was this something usual in St Gallen?
Unlike France and Germany (or many other countries) Switzerland hasn't had "nobility" for centuries. Having a coat of arms was therefore quite normal for many well off families, especially in larger and proud cities like St.Gallen. This has spread widely with time, and today a large number of Swiss families will claim to have a coat of arms - often not a "valid" one, though ;-).

The coat of arms (above) for Könlein was taken from "Wappenbuch der Stadt St.Gallen", published in 1952, containing coats of arms for more than 500 families. In other words - that Könlein had one is nothing extraordinary, and there doesn't have to be a "reason". I guess this is no longer the case, but decades ago, when you became a citizen of St.Gallen you were asked to suggest a coat of arms for your family. This suggestion was checked for heraldic consistency.


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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Merci beaucoup pour ces explications.
Christian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Bonjour Wolf

Here is another one that you might not have, it's said to be the first release : http://www.gsellfam.ch/files/12%20Genea ... 201829.pdf

I've realized that in each and every release the information are different and as such complete each others.

Best regards
Cgristian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »




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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Thank you very much for the links - I have published them for our readers on viewtopic.php?f=387&t=29133.

And I have a reward for you ;-). The City Archive is closed to the public due to Corona for the time being, but the friendly people there have sent me copies of the Könlein data - see below for the transcript of August Friedrich Georg (1794-1836). If you send me your mail address per PM, I could send you the copies.


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Könlein 1 August Friedrich Georg (1794-1836)

Post by Wolf »

August Friedrich Georg Könlein (11.09.1794-15.04.1836[§]), Sohn des Johann Georg, Pfarrer, und der Maria Sophie Roth, Bergwerksbesitzer, von Dambach, Mittelfranken, Bayern. Bürger seit 29.01.1832, Taxe fl.600, Kantonsbürger seit 11.03.1832.
oo 08.07.1834
Susanna Barbara Zuberbühler (*10.02.1811) von Trogen AR, Tochter des Sebastian, Landbauherr, und der Anna Näf. Sie verheiratet sich 1838 wieder mit Dr.med. Caspar Melchior Raymann von St.Gallenkappel, in Uznach.
Kinder:
18.04.1835 Emil August (Nr.3)
17.07.1836 Augusta Sophie, + 19.01.1838

[§] Laut Sterbebuch Wattwil ist er am 16.4. verstorben und wurde am 19.4. bestattet.

Reading this I am no longer sure if August Friedrich Georg Könlein owned a mine in Uznach (see above) - or rather back at home in Dambach.

Nachtrag: Friedrich Wilhelm ist sein Bruder.
Nachtrag: Nekrolog


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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Regarding the mine, yes, it was in Uzbach: I found this article https://www.suedostschweiz.ch/aus-dem-l ... -in-uznach, and managed to get in touch with the journalist (Kilian Oberholzer), he wrote a book "Uznach in seiner farbigen Vergangenheit", in which there are 3 pages about my grand grand grand grand father, his house in Uznach and when and why he started mining in Uznach and he kindly sent them to me.

ALl of this thanks to your input that helped me to start this search around Uznach.

Best regards
Christian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Xtian wrote:
Thu 9. Apr 2020, 10:48
..... 3 pages about my grand grand grand grand father, his house in Uznach and when and why he started mining in Uznach and he kindly sent them to me.
Could you ask for his permission to publish these 3 pages in the forum?


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Könlein 2 Friedrich Wilhelm (1804-1875)

Post by Wolf »

Friedrich Wilheln Könlein (05.04.1804-01.09.1875), Sohn des Johann Georg, Pfarrer, und der Maria Sophie Roth, Bergwerker, von Dambach, Mittelfranken, Bayern. Bürger seit 24.09.1837, Taxe fl.500, Kantonsbürger seit 05.11.1837.
oo 18.05.1852
Antonia Regina Bernet (16.08.1829-30.01.1911) von Gommiswald SG, Tochter des Franz Anton Ignaz und der Maria Regina Hüppi.
Kinder:
28.10.1852 Emma Amalia, + 12.05.1871
25.12.1853 Johann Georg Theodor Traugott, + 17.01.1868
05.02.1858 Ludwina Wilhelmine, + St.gallen 02.10.1937
13.07.1863 Elise Wilhelmine, oo 06.05.1886 Karl Josef Anton Zängerle, Kommis von Rorschacherberg.

Friedrich Wilhelm und August Friedrich Georg waren also Brüder.


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Das Haus Koenlein und der Schieferkohleabbau

Post by Wolf »

Das oben erwähnte Kapitel "Das Haus Koenlein und der Schieferkohleabbau" aus dem Buch "Uznach in seiner farbigen Vergangenheit" von Kilian Oberholzer ist hier angehängt - mit freundlicher Genehmigung des Autors.
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

GutenTag Wolf,

I've a question, I hope you can help and give your view:
In the "Bürgerbuch der Ortsbürgergemeinde St. Gallen 1854 p161", Dammbach is written with 2 "m" (this is the oldest one that I have access to).
In the following ones, 1867, 1877, 1886 and 1900 and it seems in your 1930 edition as well, as well as in the Archives document it's written with a single "m" as "Dambach".

As Dammbach exist as a town in Germany as well as -multiple- Dambach, I'm wondering if you could give me you view. I would assume that the Bugerbuch have been copied one from the other, and as such the oldest one might be the reference, but what about the Archives document then....
Many thanks
Christian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

Hi Christian,

forget about the single or double M - spellings were not taken that seriously then, especially not abroad.

To narrow it down, the important information from the Bürgerregister is that the community is in Mittelfranken.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dammbach is in Unterfranken - so it's not the one.

There are two Dambach (I find) in Mittelfranken: Dambach (today part of Fürth) and Dambach (today part of Ehingen). So - which one?

Searching for "Könlein Dambach" I came across the Intelligenzblatt des Rezat-Kreises with the following announcement:
Koenlein-Dambach-Intelligenzblatt.jpg
His given name is not mentioned - but his widow: so this is definitely Johann Georg Könlein, died 10.07.1815 in his 73rd year - so he was born either late 1741 or early 1742. It also mentions Dambach as belonging to Dekanat Wassertrüdingen, which (if I am correct) indicates the one near Ehingen.

I recommend you start a topic "Könlein in Dambach (Ehingen)" in the Bavaria board.

=======================================================
Addendum: Könlein in Dambach (Ehingen) has been started for the discussion of earlier generations.
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Thanks again Wolf for these info. Makes sense now.
Best regards
Christian



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Finally found his birthplace in a necrology - he would have been born in Heidenheim, Königreich Bayern: https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view? ... 1::108#108

Xtian
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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Hi Wolf,

Back to your very 1st response, I think I made a mistake (french/german/english, total lack of knowledge if switzerland geography), Konlein was certainly not from Alstetten (as I wrongly wrote) but from Alstätten, this makes much more sens with what I know now.

Regards



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Wolf »

No - you were quite correct ;). It was(!) Altstetten - now part of the city of Zürich. Altstätten is a small town in the St.Gallen Rhine Valley.


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Konlein in Altstetten (ZH)

Post by Xtian »

Hello

My grand father Albert August(e) Konlein (or Koenlein) was born on decembre 26th, 1901 in Altstetten, (ZH). I know that because it's written in its French citizenship document (https://www.siv.archives-nationales.cul ... jbq5p5r89j) , but I would like to find more formal info such as birth certificat...
His parents were August Albert born in Gaisburg (Stuttgart), Württemberg, Germany and Marie-Claire Petitdemange (french)

Any help appreciated
Many thanks in advance
Best regards

Christian
PS: Stay home



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Peter.D »

Hallo Christian

Die Originale der Geburtsregister der ehemaligen Gemeinde Altstetten befinden sich im Stadtarchiv in Zürich, die Doppel dieser Register im Staatsarchiv. Grundsätzlich sind im Kanton Zürich für Auskünfte über Geburten ab 1900 die Zivilstandsämter zuständig; in deinem Fall müsste das Zivilstandsamt Zürich jedoch eine Kopie im Stadtarchiv anfordern und diese dir nach Bundestarif in Rechnung stellen.

Ich empfehle dir daher, zuerst beim Stadtarchiv anzufragen. Es ist sicher hilfreich, wenn du erwähnst, dass du ein direkter Nachkomme der gesuchten Person bist.

Peter



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Re: Könlein von St.Gallen SG

Post by Xtian »

Hi Peter

While looking into my to-do-list, I realized that I never said thank you. I apologise and say it now: "Thank you".
Can you please clarify when I can ask to "Stadtarchiv" and when I should ask to "Staatsarchiv". I would like to get other birth certificats for Konlein born (married or died) in Zurich.
Last time, although I sent a request to the "Stadtarchiv", they forwarded it to Registry Office Zurich (bestellungenzsa@zuerich.ch) and they invoiced me for 30€ for a useless certificat !!!!!!!

Many thanks in advance
Best regards
Christian



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