Barth in Sitterdorf TG

[genealogy212]

Some of the ancestors that I am researching were Barths from Switzerland. According to an article that I read, some of their cousins that came over to America with them apparently lived in Helmishub St. Gallen, Switzerland which was apparently a small village renowned for its lace-making industry. They were Alfred, John, and Lina Barth and they started an embroidery factory in Maryland. The ancestors I'm research are Benedict and Marie Ann Barth. From what I've seen so far, Marie Ann's maiden name was also Barth.

The information that I have on Benedict and Marie Ann Barth is below:
Name: Benedict Barth
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1843
Spouse's Name: Maria Anna Barth
Spouse's Birth Date: 02 Sep 1853
Event Date: 01 Apr 1873
Event Place: Sitterdorf, Thurgau, Switzerland
Spouse's Father's Name: Peter Johann Barth
Spouse's Mother's Name: Anna Margareth Petri

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[Wolf]

Helmishub was around 1900 a small hamlet, part of Zihlschlacht in district Bischofszell of canton Thurgau. It then consisted of 7 houses with 38 inhabitants. It belonged to the parish of Sitterdorf - hence the marriage record there. According to the Geographical Lexicon of Switzerland, published with several volumes in the early 20th century, most families were originally from Bern.

Whilst I don't think a small hamlet like this would be renowned for anything special, embroidery as cottage industry was wide-spread in this part of Switzerland.

Now - neither Sitterdorf nor Zihlschlacht is a place of citizenship for Barth - so where did the family come from? Candidates in Thurgau would be Aadorf (since before 1800) and Matzingen (since 1809 - originally from Germany). There is no citizenship in canton St.Gallen - but Barth have been citizens of Appenzell since before 1800: certainly a good address for embroidery as a cottage industry. Finally there is canton Bern, where most Helmishub families are supposed to come from: quite a few pre-1800 places of citizenship, mostly in what today is canton Jura. There are Barth citizenships in other cantons as well, and there is the spelling Bart, which cannot be excluded as the pronunciation is identical.

So there are quite a few choices - but if you are lucky their place of citizenship may be mentioned in the marriage entry: have you got your information from a database - or actually seen the church records?

[John]

In FamilySearch.org lassen sich aus den verfilmten Kirchenbüchern von Sitterdorf TG Filmnummer 958414 folgende BARTH finden, leider aber nicht die Herkunft:

Heiraten (Batch-Nr. M961192):
1866 Johannes Barth & Anna Baumgartner,
1873 Benedict Barth & Maria Anna Barth;
1874 Benedikt Kummer & Anna Maria Barth;
1875 Jacob Barth & Elisabeth Baumgartner.

Taufen (Batch-Nr. C961192):
Eltern Johann[es] und Anna Baumgartner
1867 ? Barth,
1868 Linna Barth,
1870 Johann Barth,
1871 Alfred Barth,
1874 Ida Barth,

Eltern Friederich Baumgartner und Anna de Benedict Maria Barth;
1869 Elise.

Weitere Eltern oben genannter Personen und Details daselbst.

Gruss John

[Wolf]

Schade, dass die Herkunft nicht genannt ist - aber Danke für Deine Bemühungen.

Haben denn die Taufen der Ehepartner in Sitterdorf stattgefunden?
Benedict Barth, 14 Aug 1843
Maria Anna Barth, 02 Sep 1853

Wenn nicht (oder wenn auch dort keine Herkunftsangabe gemacht ist), muss wohl in den "potentiellen" Bürgerorten weiter gesucht werden.

Die o.g. Einträge stammen aus dem reformierten Kirchenbuch Zihlschlacht (das reformiert Sitterdorf mit einschliesst), nicht aus dem katholischen Kirchenbuch Sitterdorf. Das lässt Appenzell AI als Herkunftsort unwahrscheinlich erscheinen. Matzingen war reformiert, Aadorf gemischt - beide sind also mögliche Herkunftsorte - wie auch die Gemeinden im Kanton Bern (einschl. heutigem Jura).

[Wolf]

John has checked the marriage records on film - unfortunately the origins of the two involved are not mentioned. The next step would be to check their baptismal entries - if not in Sitterdorf/Zihlschlacht, or no origin mentioned either, the "potential" places of citizenship could be checked.

Appenzell AI (catholic) is unlikely as the above marriage took place in a reformed parish. Matzingen was reformed - Aadorf mixed - so both would be a possibility - as are all the parishes in canton Bern (incl. what is Jura today).

[John]

Die Heirat von Maria Anna BARTH mit Benedict BARTH ist in FamilySearch.org auch unter Evang. Neukirch an der Thur zu finden (Filmnummer 995220 oder Batch-Nr. M98693-4) am 23.03.1873. Das deutet darauf hin dass die Eheschliessung wirklich in Neukirch an der Thur stattgefunden hat, weil der Eintrag Sitterdorf mit dem 1. April 1873 datiert ist. Somit könnte eine der Personen BARTH vorher in Neukirch an der Thur gewohnt haben.

Die Daten in der Mormonendatei unter Sitterdorf sind vermutlich die zivilen Daten!

Im übrigen hiess die Evang. Kirchgemeinde früher Sitterdorf, und Zihlschlacht war eine Filiale, heute nennt sie sich Evang. Kirchgemeinde Sitterdorf-Zihlschlacht. Jedes Dorf hat ihre eigene Kirche, aber nur den einen Pfarrer für Sitterdorf und Zihlschlacht.

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Summary:
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The marriage is also registered in Neukirch an der Thur ... one week earlier (23 March 1873). This may indicate that the marriage was only announced on 01 April in Sitterdorf, or that this is the date of a civil wedding. Consequently there is a chance that at least one of the couple lived in Neukirch an der Thur before the marriage.