Grandi im Kanton Ticino

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Sajkod53
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Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Sajkod53 » Tue 3. Jun 2014, 13:37

Hello,
I am looking for genealogy sources around Locarno.

Actually, two sources would be helpful:

1. church matriculas from the XVIII. century
2. records about chimney sweepers (spazzicaminar), immigrating to Hungary around 1780

Note:
One of my ancestors, named Dominicus Grando (Grandi, Grande variations also exist), started a business as „caminarius” in 1780 in Eperjes (Then Hungary, now Slovakia, as Presov). Since this is not a usual Hungarian name and many of the chimney sweepers from that time came from around Locarno, I would like to check the records.

If you have any information about these sources, please inform me.

Thank you.

Regards
Elisabeth
HUNGARY
Last edited by Wolf on Tue 3. Jun 2014, 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: urspr. Titel: XVIII. century chimney sweepers



Peter.D
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Re: XVIII. century chimney sweepers

Post by Peter.D » Tue 3. Jun 2014, 17:10

Hi Elisabeth,

Do you know when and where Domenico Grandi was born? If not, you would be obliged to scan many church records, because this family name was common in many parishes at that time, notably in Breno, Malvaglia, Menzonio, Rivera and Gentilino. The records of most if not all of these parishes should be available on microfilm in a center of the Mormons (LDS) in your neighborhood.

Unfortunately, you won't find specific records on the emigration of the spazzacamini, but there is at least a broad publication on this sad subject of ticinese history.

Peter



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Re: XVIII. century chimney sweepers

Post by Sajkod53 » Tue 3. Jun 2014, 21:07

Hi Peter,
Thank you for the quick reply.
Unfortunately I know very little from Dominicus Grade. He was probably born in 1730 or 1731.
The Italian-Swiss origin is only a guess.

He was a member of the Hungarian Chimney Sweepers Guild. The Protocol Book of the guild contains many records of members with Italian names (90% of the names !). Some of the records contain the birthplace of the members: many from Locarno, Brioni, etc. It's a pity that Grande's record doesn't contain any such information.

That's why I woud start the search here. The name Grande is unusual here.

I've carefully checked the catalogs of familysearch.org. I can't find any catalog records of Swiss church records (only Bern, Basel and Schaffhausen are listed). Do you mean this mormon collection?

Are there any other sources for the Swiss church records?
Thank you for the link about the history of spazzacaminari, I will check it.

Best regards
Elisabeth

PS:
Although the history of spazzacamini maybe generally sad, the Hungarian staple did quite well.
They became well respected and rich.
Dominicus Grande married Theresia Paracelsus, they had 8 children. He died in 1825 aged 94.



Peter.D
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Peter.D » Wed 4. Jun 2014, 19:49

Hi Elisabeth,

You obviously checked for the records which are available online - and that's not the case for the great majority of Swiss parishes! However, the records of most ticinese parishes are available on microfilm in a center of the Mormons. I suggest you contact the nearest center and ask them how to order the films in Hungary.

However, how do you intend to identify 'your' Domenico Grandi? The christian name Domenico was very common at that time.

Peter



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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Sajkod53 » Fri 6. Jun 2014, 08:16

Hi Peter,

The probability that I find my ancestor among Domenico Grandis is quite small.
A list of the possible candidates with the birthplace included is only a further piece of the puzzle.

Presov (Eperiensis, Eperjes) was a wealthy town in the XVIII. century. When somebody became a "civis" (citizen) of the town, it was documented.
Perhaps they included the birthplace.

When I have time, I will try to look around in the archive of Presov (400 km from here...)

Unfortunately the documents from the XVIII. century are written in Kurrenschrift, which is sometimes very hard to decipher.

I've found the church records for the villages you mentioned. (No church records show up when you search in general for "Ticino", but if you search with specific village names the records shows up.)

I looked up the villages on a map which you listed. Was there any particular reason to list these villages? Or you listed the names of Ticino villages as examples?

Regards
Elisabeth



Peter.D
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Peter.D » Fri 6. Jun 2014, 19:51

Hi Elisabeth,

I had listed the names of all communities where the Grandis had the citizenship (burghership) before 1800 and still in 1962. However, Domenico Grandi could have had the citizenship of another community before 1800, although his family later emigrated from this community or became extinct before 1962.

But it is definitely a good idea to search for the record of his naturalization in Presov, because such records mostly have additional information on the person. Come back to this forum if you have difficulties to decipher the Kurrentschrift, if the records really are in German.

Peter



Sajkod53
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Sajkod53 » Sun 8. Jun 2014, 15:09

Hi Peter,
Thank you for your attention and help.

You mentioned that you could help with deciphering Kurrentschrift.


I've taken photos from Domenico Grandis entry record to the guild and altough I'm sure the missing words are not telling the birthplace, maybe there is some important information in the words I can't read.
I attach the pictures - one is the original photo, the other is an edited one - I tried to make it more contrasted.

The sentences is (approximatly):

xxxx yyyy H. Domenicus Grandi nach er (?) Eperies als Meister an- und aufgenommen wurde, erlegt seines Meister Rechts, die halbscheid mit 17.

What are the two words in the beginning of the sentence?

Best regards,
Elisabeth
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Sajkod53
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Sajkod53 » Sun 8. Jun 2014, 19:38

Hello,
Some additional info:

The pictures in my previous post were taken from the "Protocoll" of the Chimney Sweepers Guild of Buda.
This guild was founded in 1748 in.
All the books of this guild are available in "Budapest Fővárosi Levéltár" (Budapest Archive).

The Protocoll is one volume, without page numbers. (Only the year is given at the beginnig of each section).

These pictures are details from the 1781 protocol.
The ink is sometimes seen through the paper from the opposite side.

Regards,
Elisabeth



Peter.D
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Peter.D » Sun 8. Jun 2014, 21:11

Hi Elisabeth,

Unfortunately, the text does not contain any key to Domenico's origin:

Zugleichen (at the same time) wurde H.(Herr) Domenicus Grandi nacher (old form for nach) Eperies (Prešov) als Meister an- und aufgenommen worden (unnecessary at this place), erlegt seines Meister Rechts, die Halbscheid (half of any locally known fee) mit 17 fl (Gulden).

Peter



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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Wolf » Sun 8. Jun 2014, 21:16

Sajkod53 wrote:The sentences is (approximatly):
xxxx yyyy H. Domenicus Grandi nach er (?) Eperies als Meister an- und aufgenommen wurde, erlegt seines Meister Rechts, die halbscheid mit 17.
I read "Ingleichen [Ingleicher?] wurde ...." - likely on the same day, or in the same year, at the same meeting ...

I had problems with the second word - but comparing it with the entry above, it became clear.

-----------------

Oooops - Peter has beaten me by a few minures :twisted:.
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Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen

Sajkod53
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Re: Grandi im Kanton Ticino

Post by Sajkod53 » Mon 9. Jun 2014, 08:31

Hi,
Thank you for your help.
I hope I can find some clue in Presov.
Best regards
Elisabeth



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