Furrer von Lungern OW

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jadeschmitt
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Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » So 31. Jan 2016, 08:49

Hello,

I need help locating records for my ancestor, Joseph Fuhr / Furrer. He was born around 1764 in Lungern, and at some point before 1800 he moved to Henau, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany. I don't have any experience researching in Switzerland, so any help finding my ancestor is much appreciated.


Vielen Dank,
Jade
Zuletzt geändert von Wolf am So 31. Jan 2016, 13:48, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Grund: urspr. Titel: Furrer/Fuhr from Lungern (Obwalden)



Wolf
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Wolf » So 31. Jan 2016, 14:10

First of all - welcome to the forum, Jade 8-).

Preliminary note: according to the Register of Swiss Surnames the official spelling of the name today is Furrer - I have therefor re-named this thread accordingly. That does by no means at all imply that Furrer has been the spelling at all times: it may well be that the name was written Fuhr in some documents 250 years ago, when the spelling of names was not yet fixed.

I cannot really help you with research in Obwalden, however, as this is not my area of expertise. Just some basic info from the Obwalden web page: Most sources relevant for genealogical research are not kept at the State Archive, but the Civil Registry Office in Sarnen. The web page states, that the staff there will assist you with your genealogy related questions.

The genealogy information is only referring to the time period after 1876, and doesn't mention church records and the like. Unless someone with experience speaks up here in the forum, you could contact the person mentioned here and ask for specific advice.

If you do that, and get more hints how to continue, copy that here as it will increase your chances for getting further advice.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Di 2. Feb 2016, 07:13

Hi Wolf,

Thank you very much for the explanation and a starting point for my search. I will reach out to Ms. Flück and see where she may direct me. I see what you mean, that it does not mention church records on that site, only civil registers. I wonder how early the civil registers go.. if like Germany, they began in 1798? I suppose I will find out when I contact Ms. Flück.

Thank you for your guidance.
Jade



Wolf
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Wolf » Di 2. Feb 2016, 13:34

jadeschmitt hat geschrieben:I wonder how early the civil registers go.. if like Germany, they began in 1798?
I doubt that there is a single answer for all areas now belonging to Germany - and there is definitely no single answer for Switzerland: it will depend on the canton - and I am just not familiar with the situation in OW.
The Civil Registry System, as we have it now (and uniform for all of Switzerland), started in 1876.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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Peter.D
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Peter.D » Di 2. Feb 2016, 17:31

Unlike a few other cantons, Obwalden did not start the Civil registry prior to 1876, when - as Wolf already explained - the federal system became mandatory.
However, Obwalden started a family register for each parish already in 1794, with retroactive recording back to the early 17th century. In 1876, they finally set up a modern family register. Therefore, the conditions for finding ancestors should be near perfect in this canton!

Peter



jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Di 2. Feb 2016, 19:08

Peter, and Wolf, thank you for the further information.

I'm amazed to have already heard back from the archives. They sent me two sheets from the family registers, of two men who could possibly be my ancestor born around 1764. The only problem is there are two of them, and many more Furrers in this town, apparently. I don't know more about my Joseph from the German records, such as who his parents were for certain, so I may not be able to solve this. I am making another inquiry for one more record that could help with this but I'm not sure how far I will get.


Jade



jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Mo 15. Feb 2016, 02:47

Well, they weren't able to give me any other info other than they think my ancestor was Johann Joseph Furrer born about 1764 who married Anna Maria Imfeld and may have left her there and moved to Germany... Anna Maria married someone else, Anton Zurheim?? but the man wouldn't look up the marriage record for this to tell me if it mentioned the circumstances of her first marriage to Johann Joseph Furrer ending... presumably it would say he died or left her there.. but he said he cannot help, but that if I am ever in Switzerland I am welcome to look at the records. I live in the U.S. and the chance of me ever getting to Switzerland to look at these records is very low. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.



Wolf
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Wolf » Mo 15. Feb 2016, 11:32

Let me summarize:
jadeschmitt hat geschrieben:I need help locating records for my ancestor, Joseph Fuhr / Furrer. He was born around 1764 in Lungern, and at some point before 1800 he moved to Henau, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany.
jadeschmitt hat geschrieben:Well, they weren't able to give me any other info other than they think my ancestor was Johann Joseph Furrer born about 1764 who married Anna Maria Imfeld and may have left her there and moved to Germany.
You then attach two family sheets: [correction below]
II.211 (Bl.76): Johann Furrer (in Giswil), born 1766 to Johann Josef and Maria Josefa Berchtold, married Josefa Jakober, born 1773 (aus der Schwendi); death is not recorded (which might be an indication that he had left Switzerland).
IV.212 (Bl.81): Peter Josef Furrer (Bürglen), born 1799 to Josef Anton Magnus and Maria Katharina Halter, married 1831 Kathrina Gasser (father "auf dem Allmendli"), died 1874.

Re Johann (1766-?): year of birth close enough, but given name differing (Joseph vs. Johann). On the other hand - with several given names for a single person, often not all names are listed in different documents. But then - he had children born 1799-1803, likely in Lungern (nothing else mentioned) - which would contradict an emigration before 1800.

Re Peter Josef (1799-1874): very unlikely that he emigrated before 1800 ... I cannot see any connection between him and your question ... am I missing something?

Were these two family sheets the only ones sent to you - or are there others? What about "Johann Joseph Furrer born about 1764 who married Anna Maria Imfeld"?


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Di 16. Feb 2016, 01:32

Hi Wolf,

I think you miss the second entry on each page.. The second page, second entry (at the bottom of the page) is the Johann Josef Furrer that the man at the archiv supposes is my ancestor.



Wolf
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Wolf » Di 16. Feb 2016, 10:26

jadeschmitt hat geschrieben:Hi Wolf, I think you miss the second entry on each page...
Oooops :roll: ... the way the pdf was displayed on my screen it just looked like one family sheet per page only: to make it easier to see, I attach the two other (more relevant) sheets as jpg below.

Re Josef Furrer (born 1765): if the birth date (20 Jan 1788) of his wife is correct, he will not have married before 1800 - and wouldn't fit your "requirement" of emigrating before 1800.

Re Johann Josef Furrer (born 1764): the naming convention in German speaking areas is different from the English/US conventions; for "Johann Josef" Josef will not be the (usually abbreviated) "middle name" but the main name, the name used to call the person; it is quite common to add a common given name (like Johann) to all boys' names for the entire family. So most likely Johann Josef will just have been called Josef - and this could be the only name he used after emigration.

The fact that no death date is gven - despite the fact that his wife married a second time, could well be an indication that he left Switzerland (and did not stay in contact any longer). His daughter seems to have stayed in Switzerland and got married here: being born 1798 indicates that at least her mother stayed with her in Switzerland.

Conclusion: of the four husbands (family sheets) Johann Josef (born 1764) is the only plausible candidate for your ancestor - which is no proof, however, that no other potential candidate exists! Further research would be needed for that: unfortunately the OW church records have not been filmed by the Mormons - so only someone in the region can perform further research.
Du hast keine ausreichende Berechtigung, um die Dateianhänge dieses Beitrags anzusehen.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Do 18. Feb 2016, 06:38

Wolf hat geschrieben:Conclusion: of the four husbands (family sheets) Johann Josef (born 1764) is the only plausible candidate for your ancestor - which is no proof, however, that no other potential candidate exists! Further research would be needed for that: unfortunately the OW church records have not been filmed by the Mormons - so only someone in the region can perform further research.
Yes, I think the only thing that will really help is if I can find a marriage record for his wife who married Anton Zurheim?? Maybe that marriage record will explain what happened to her first husband, Josef, and tell me if this is my ancestor. I'm not sure how to accomplish this since I do not know that I will ever have the opportunity to visit Switzerland myself, unfortunately.



Wolf
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Wolf » Do 18. Feb 2016, 20:00

jadeschmitt hat geschrieben:
Wolf hat geschrieben:Conclusion: of the four husbands (family sheets) Johann Josef (born 1764) is the only plausible candidate for your ancestor - which is no proof, however, that no other potential candidate exists! Further research would be needed for that: unfortunately the OW church records have not been filmed by the Mormons - so only someone in the region can perform further research.
Yes, I think the only thing that will really help is if I can find a marriage record for his wife who married Anton Zurheim?? Maybe that marriage record will explain what happened to her first husband, Josef, ...
Small comment first: her second husband was Anton Zumstein. He will have his own sheet (Blatt 121 is mentioned) - but I doubt this will give much information about Josef Furrer.

What you could try to do, is to contact Zentralschweizerische Gesellschaft für Familienforschung and ask if any of their members could possibly have a look at the church records (whilst in the archive anyway). Just mention this thread: their members use this forum for their own discussions - and hopefully someone would then answer here in the forum. I cannot promise it will work, ofcourse, but it's worth a try.


Wolf Seelentag, St.Gallen
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jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Fr 19. Feb 2016, 09:24

Wolf hat geschrieben:What you could try to do, is to contact Zentralschweizerische Gesellschaft für Familienforschung and ask if any of their members could possibly have a look at the church records (whilst in the archive anyway). Just mention this thread: their members use this forum for their own discussions - and hopefully someone would then answer here in the forum. I cannot promise it will work, ofcourse, but it's worth a try.
Thank you for the suggestion, Wolf. I will get in touch with them to see if they are able to help. Thank you for your help!

Jade



Felber
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Felber » Mo 28. Dez 2020, 14:24

Zufallsfund im Ehebuch von Horw LU: Am 06.02.1837 heirateten ebenda Josef Küng von Schüpfheim LU, Senn, ledig, getauft am 27.09.1795 in Schüpfheim LU, Sohn des Landmanns Franz Küng und der Anna Maria Unternährer, und Ignatia Furrer von Lungern OW, Magd, ledig, getauft am 09.01.1796 in Lungern OW, Tochter des Schreiners Josef Furrer und der Anna Maria Imfeld.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Olivier Felber



jadeschmitt
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von jadeschmitt » Mo 28. Dez 2020, 21:26

Felber hat geschrieben:
Mo 28. Dez 2020, 14:24
Ignatia Furrer von Lungern OW, Magd, ledig, getauft am 09.01.1796 in Lungern OW, Tochter des Schreiners Josef Furrer und der Anna Maria Imfeld.
Interesting! Thank you for the information, Olivier. I will keep that in mind in case I discover this Josef Furrer is my ancestor! Unfortunately I have made no progress in proving this connection.



Felber
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Re: Furrer von Lungern OW

Beitrag von Felber » Do 31. Dez 2020, 17:02

Dear Jade

Indeed, it might be the same couple. But it could also be coincidence that there were two or more couples with the exact same common names.

Kind regards

Olivier



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