Hohl von Heiden AR

[Wolf]

Ich versuch's 'mal:

Hs. Jacob Hohl Alt RathsH(err) Ulrich Hohlen seel. ... ehl. led. Sohn.
Anna Höhlin Jacob Hohlen a(us) Wolfhalden ehl. led. Tochter.
Nat(us) d(en) 19. 8br. (Oktober) 1774: Mater erat Anna Kellenbergerin.

[philokoi]

Hi Wolf,

Thank you but I don't understand everything in german, can you translate in english please?

Hs means Hans?

Also Mater erat means ?

Best regards,

Philippe

[Wolf]

Hi Philippe,

my above posting is a letter-by-letter transcription (plus some additions in brackets) - tanslated the entry says:

Hans Jacob Hohl, legitimate and unmarried son of the late former council member Ulrich Hohl (one word/abbreviation I could not decipher)
- marries -
Anna Hohl (Höhlin just being the female form), legitimate and unmarried daughter of Jacob Hohl from Wolfhalden (in canton Appenzell Ausserrhoden).

The last line is Latin and refers to Hans Jacob Hohl:
Born 19 October 1774; the mother was Anna Kellenberger (Kellenbergerin being the female form).

[philokoi]

Thank you Wolf,

In your translation, you said unmarried, is this record not a marriage record?

I have other records where I have difficulties to read and decipher, can you help me one more time please?

Marriage Johannes Hohl with Anna Tobler Heiden 15/7/1834 (translation)

image015.png

Birth Johannes Hohl Heiden 12/11/1806

image014.png

Birth Johann Jakob Heiden 14/10/1856

image013.png

Thank you,

Philippe

[philokoi]

Birth Anna Tobler Heiden 9/2/1812

image005.png

Birth Anna Tobler Heiden 19/11/1809

image010.png

Birth Anna Hohl Heiden 8/4/1808

image011.png

[Wolf]

In your translation, you said unmarried, is this record not a marriage record?

Correct - it is a marriage record - but before he got married he was unmarried, as opposed to a widower.

Will have a look at the other records later - hopefully someome else is faster .
Reading small sections is difficult: to know what it is, is often helpful if not necessary: please, describe the type of record, incl. the parish, for each screenshot (when you add an attachment, there is a field for this purpose).

[philokoi]

Hello Wolf,

Sorry for the poor details, I am not at home for the moment and I post it from à tablet so it's not so easy as from à computer.

All records are from Heiden.

I have added some missing informations.

Best regards,

Philippe

[Wolf]

Marriage Johannes Hohl with Anna Tobler Heiden 15/7/1834

July 15 (in St.Margrethen SG): Johannes Hohl, legitimate and unmarried son of the former council member J. Jakob Hohl from here, and Anna Hohl
marries
Anna Tobler, legitimate and unmarried daughter of J. Jakob Tobler from here, and Anna Rohner.

I am a bit unsure about the /Langen..../ - likely the husband's place of living.

You find the wedding entry in St.Margrethen here.

[Peter.D]

Hallo Wolf, ich lese Langmoos (1808) bzw. Langenmoos (1834) - das wäre dann in der Gemeinde Berneck.

Peter

[Wolf]

Hallo Wolf, ich lese Langmoos (1808) bzw. Langenmoos (1834) - das wäre dann in der Gemeinde Berneck.

Langenmoss/Langmoos macht Sinn, insbesondere da beim Schreiber (1834) die a, e, o oft sehr ähnlich ausfallen. Laut ortsnamen.ch gibt es allerdings auch ein Langmoos/Langenmoos in Heiden AR. Wenn das der Wohnort des Bräutigams ist, bleibt die Frage, warum jemand aus Heiden nach St.Margrethen geht, um eine Heidenerin zu heiraten. Hat die Familie der Braut vielleicht dort gelebt?

[philokoi]

Thank you for these interesting informations.

I am a bit disapointed about the marriage of Johannes and Anna Tobler in 1834, she was 25 years old and at the Birth of her son Johann Jakob in 1856, she was 47 years old, is this realistic?

I suppose they have other children before this one.

I don't find the marriage record from Johann Jakob Hohl with Anna Hohl, I searched between 1775 and 1810 without result in Heiden.

Thank you for your help,

Philippe

[Wolf]

Let me summarise what we know so far (numbering according to Kekule system):

01 Hohl Johannes, * Heiden AR 14.10.1856

02 Hohl Johannes, * Heiden AR 12.11.1806
oo St.Margrethen SG 15.07.1834
03 Tobler Anna, * Heiden AR 19.11.1809

04 Hohl Hans Jacob, *19.10.1774
oo Heiden AR 24.03.1801
05 Hohl Anna

06 Tobler Johann Jacob [Further discussion on the Tobler family see here.]
oo Heiden AR 23.03.1809 (?)
07 Rohner Anna

08 Hohl Ulrich, Ratsherr, von Heiden AR, + vor 1801
oo
09 Kellenberger Anna

10 Hohl Jacob, von Wolfhalden AR [A new topic should be started for discussions on Hohl from Wolfhalden.]
oo
11 NN

I am a bit disapointed about the marriage of Johannes and Anna Tobler in 1834, she was 25 years old and at the birth of her son Johannes [Hohl] in 1856, she was 47 years old, is this realistic?
I suppose they have other children before this one.

Giving birth at the age of 47 years is certainly not very common, but quite possible. It would be a good idea, however, to make sure there is no other Anna Tobler.
Yes - it is to be expected that the couple had more children - finding all these may also help to confirm the "correct" Anna Tobler has been found.
Further discussion on Anna Tobler and her family see here.

[philokoi]

Thank you Wolf,

Are you sure about Johannes's father?

I tough it was Johann Jakob Hohl, not Hans Jakob.

image015.png

Best regards,

Philippe

[Wolf]

Are you sure about Johannes's father?
I tought it was Johann Jakob Hohl, not Hans Jacob.

Johannes / Johann / Hans are different spellings of the same name - in the wedding notice 1801 it says "Hs. (= Hans) Jacob". In your genealogy program you should note all spelling variations (and on which occasion they were use) - in a summary (like here) I prefer just one variation (to keep it simpler) - but I have to admit the selection, which to use, is a bit arbitrary .

[Wolf]

Zu Hohl von Heiden siehe auch Sammlung Thommen im Kanton AR. Zu finden ist das Geschlecht dort unter dem Stichwort Kurzenberg: Kurzenberg ist eine Region im Appenzeller Vorderland, die sich 1658 in die drei heutigen Gemeinden Heiden, Lutzenberg und Wolfhalden aufspaltete. Bis zum Bau zweier eigener Kirchen 1652 war man nach Thal SG kirchgenössig.