Schönenberger von Fischenthal ZH

[Dlsscho]

Searchers:
I am searching for information for a Heinrich Schonenberger.
Birth: Circa 1530
Birth Place: Believed to be Schonenberg, District of Hargen, Canton of Zurich.
Death: February 8, 1590 at Fischenthal.
Marriage: Barbel Egli Circa 1550
Children:
Jo(h)annes born September 17, 1551 at Fischenthal
Felix: Unknown
Ulrich: Unknown
Jacob: Unknown
Verena: Unknown
Barbel: Baptized January 7, 1560 at Fischenthal
Other: It is believed that Barbel Egli, wife, was a serf to the Cloister at Fischingen.

Willard Schoenberger
Redfield, Kansas, USA

[Peter.D]

Hi Willard,

Heinrich Schönenberger was definitely not born in Schönenberg, because this community had another name before 1700!
I guess he was also born in Fischenthal, where the Parish Registers are available on microfilm from 1546 in an LDS center. Any research prior to this date will be extremely difficult.

Peter

[Dlsscho]

Thank you Peter.
Did Schonenberg have a name prior to 1700 or was it associated with another named place. I have researched Kirchenbuch Fischenthal. I found a death record for Heinrich and a birth record for his youngest child in 1560. There were no other entries prior to 1560 which leads me to believe he may have lived some where else.

Willard Schoenberger

[Peter.D]

Hi Willard,

In 1524, Uli Schönenberg married Barbara Brändli in Wald (canton of Zurich), which is immediately bordering Fischenthal. Your Heinrich Schönenberg(er) could therefore well be a son of this couple. Unfortunately, the Kirchenbücher of Wald only begin in 1558. I do not know the source of the marriage of 1524, obviously mentioned in the Frick Collection, which is very useful, but not always correct. But you could perhaps find some other indications in the Kirchenbücher of Wald after 1558.

The Schönenberger got their name probably because they originally came from the hamlet Schönenberg in the parish of Mosnang or the one in the parish of Wattwil.

I also suggest you contact the Staatsarchiv in Zurich and ask them if they know more about the source for the marriage in 1524 as indicated by Mr. Frick.

Peter

[Dlsscho]

Peter
Thank you for the information. I will request the church records for both Wald and Mosnang and see what I can find. I have some names and dates to follow. Perhaps I will discover some life event records of my ancestors that will reveal them to me.
Foregive my ignorance but what is the Frick Collection?

Willard Schoenberger

[Peter.D]

Johannes Frick (1859-1935), originally a farmer in the neighborhood of the city of Zurich, made extensive researches on most traditional family names in the Canton of Zurich in the first 30 years of the last century (not including the city of Zurich). His remarkable collection was acquired by the State Archives of Zurich and made available to the public in form of photocopies. Obviously, he also treated the Schönenberger family.

Your ancestors most probably got their family name only after settling outside Schönenberg, like somebody settling in Zurich but coming from Basel might have received the family name Basler. Therefore, a research in Mosnang or Wattwil may not reveal your name. Furthermore, the church records of those parishes do not begin before ca. 1600.

Peter

[Wolf]

According to Zürcher Familiennamen there are quite a few places with the name of Schönenberg, from where the family could originate: a village near Neukirch TG, and hamlets in the communities of Wängi TG, Mosnang SG, Wattwil SG, Bergdietikon AG. Schönenberg ZH can be excluded - was given that name as late as 1703.

The oldest mention for Schönenberger in Fischenthal, given in this booklet, is the marriage 1572 of Felix Schönenberger with Margaretha Zimiker. This is a bit later than the baptisms mentioned by Willard: possibly only wedding registers were evaluated by the authors.

[Dlsscho]

Wolf
Thank you for the information. I have mapped the geographic locations of the Schonenberger name as they occurred prior to 1800 (Register of Swiss Surnames). There is a definite cluster of occurrences midway between Zurich and Saint Gallen. I have also mapped every occurrence of places named Schonenberg or contain Schonenberg. Are you aware of a place named "Schmids am Steg"? I am aware of Steg not far from Fischenthal.

I am currently searching the Kirchenbuch Fischenthal and have found the record for Felix that you mentioned in your post. I also plan to review the records for Mosnang, Wattwil and Wald just to see what I can find. At some point, I will probably have to engage the services of a professional. Hopefully, this Forum might be helpful in that pursuit.

Thank you
Willard Schoenberger
Redfield, Kansas, USA

[Wolf]

I have never heard of a "Schmids am Steg" - and it looks somewhat unusual for a place name: what's your source? Would be useful to see the original handwriting in context.

[Dlsscho]

Wolf
A man named Lewis Ellingham of Allen County, Ohio, USA has done quite a bit of research on the Schonenberger name. He lists the son of one of the persons I am researching as being born at Schmids and Steg. Another dead end.

Thak you

Willard Schoenberger

[Dlsscho]

Wolf
A question please. If a married woman dies while her husband still lives is her death in a church book recorded by her married name or her maiden name?

Willard Schoenberger

[Wolf]

My experience for the 16th century is extremely limited. For the 17/18th centuries in "my" regions (Germany and German speaking Switzerland) women usually kept their names when getting married, and consequently the maiden name would show up in death notices, irrespective of whether the husband was still alive or not. Depending on the priest keeping the records, she would be also denoted as "wife of ..." or "widow of ...".

[Dlsscho]

Wolf
A personal note:
I would like to thank you for your assistance.

I have found the hamlet of Schonenberg believed to be the place of origin of my family name. I researched more carefully some records kept by my german relatives. These records state Schonenberg was in the canton of Zurich but go on to state that the hamlet could be found within a triangle described by the towns of Mosnang, Muhlruti and Gahwil. Within this triangle I can find only one place named Schonenberg. This place would be, just barely, within the canton of St Gallen. The german records have a photograph of Schonenberg showing a cluster of 4 or 5 buildings. Google Earth shows today a small cluster of buildings some of which have the same orientation as in the photograph. I am fairly certain I have found my Schonenberg! I am assuming my german relatives have it right.
Thank you again for your help.

Willard Schoenberger

[Wolf]

Well - as stated above - there are several hamlets of this name around, and it seems to be impossible to determine which is the "right" one; at least that fact that Zürcher Familiennamen just mentions all of them, without preference, indicates this.

Names of old hamlet often show up as street names today - check the phone directory: to the right of the name are several icons - click on the contur of Switzerland (first of the three) to see the address in a map.

[Dlsscho]

Question

I came upon a baptism record for a family member at the Fischenthal Reformed Church that confuses me. The father of the child was identified as an anabaptist. Is it not odd that an anabaptist would have a child ( I assume infant child) baptized in the Reformed Church? Perhaps my translator got it wrong.

Anabatist.docx

[Peter.D]

The translation seems correct. The Anabaptist Hans Schönenberger was probably forced to baptize his daughter. In their eyes, however, this 'first' baptism was not valid and they therefore 'repeated' the baptism when the child came of age. That's why they were called Wiedertäufer or Anabaptists.

Peter

[Dlsscho]

A person I met on the Forum did some quick research of the state archives at Zurich for me. He found a document that appears to have been a census document circa 1570 for the town of Fischenthal. Within this document my ancestor Heini Schonenberger his wife Barbel Egli and their 5 children were listed as "leibeigene" at the Kloster of Fischigen. How can I go about getting a complete copy or transcription of this document?

Willard Schoenberger

[Wolf]

How can I go about getting a complete copy or transcription of this document?

Well - first I would ask the person you mention, if (s)he visits the State Archive frequently .... if yes, (s)he could enquire there. It will depend on the availability of the document: if on film, getting a copy should not be too difficult; it likely will not be allowed to photocopy the original - but may be ok to photograph it (without flash!). If this is not allowed either (for such an old document) one has to ask, what service the Archive has to offer for this case.

If your contact doesn't visit the Archive frequently, just ask the Archive directly.

[Dlsscho]

Wolf
I would not ask an acquaintance from the internet to spend a large amount of time to research my family at the Archives. A 1570 census at Fischenthal could contain a significant number of my ancestors. I contacted the Archives and requested a list of professional genealogists associated with the Archive. Thank you for your assistance.

Bill Schoenberger

[Wolf]

I would not ask an acquaintance from the internet to spend a large amount of time to research my family at the Archives.

I did not suggest to impose time consuming work on someone you just know from the forum . My suggestion was, that this person could ask personally (rather than via mail) what to do - and (if not too many pages and allowed) to just photograph the document. A complete transscription will be something completely different, of course.

[Dlsscho]

I have identified several family members and their children by researching the reformed church records at Fischenthal, ZH. Recently I researched the Population Registers of the Zurich Synod records for Fischenthal. I found several children for my Fischenthal relatives that were not in the church record. Question: Are the Population Registers considered to be more, less or equally reliable as the local church records?

[Wolf]

I assume you are talking about the "Bevölkerungsverzeichnis" for Fischenthal - so we are talking about the time span from 1634 to 1723.

My first reaction would be that this is not a question of more or less reliable, but rather of recording something different. If you look at the above link, there are several records "Abwesende" indicated, i.e. families absent: Fischenthal families living somewhere else and consequently having their children baptised somewhere else, so they don't show up in the Fischenthal baptismal register. There might even be children mentioned with resident families, baptised whilst the family was absent and returned to Fischenthal again in the meantime.

[Dlsscho]

Would it be possible to make arrangements to purchase a copy of Armin Sierszyn's book 66 Familiennamen seit 700: zwichen Bachtel, Stoffel und Schnebelhorn?
Willard Schoenberger Kansas, USA

[Wolf]

66 Familiennamen seit 700 Jahren: zwischen Bachtel, Stoffel und Schnebelhorn
by Armin Sierszyn
published by the author, Bäretswil, 1996 (detail).

As it was published by the author, likely in rather small numbers, chances to find it in book shops are dim - but you could try to contact the autor (see telephone directory).